{"id":1900,"date":"2015-01-16T18:12:57","date_gmt":"2015-01-16T17:12:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.www.innovationiseverywhere.com\/?p=1900"},"modified":"2022-12-22T15:08:55","modified_gmt":"2022-12-22T14:08:55","slug":"interviewing-mitch-altman-hackerspaces-love","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/innovationiseverywhere.com\/fr\/interviewing-mitch-altman-hackerspaces-love\/","title":{"rendered":"Interviewing Mitch Altman: &quot;Hackerspaces are about love&quot;"},"content":{"rendered":"<div dir=\"ltr\">\n<div>\n<div>Last year, as we did some research on the places of innovation for a client, we interviewed <a title=\"Mitch Altman\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Mitch_Altman\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Mitch Altman<\/a>, dubbed the \u00ab\u00a0father of the hackerpaces\u00a0\u00bb. The topic was to know how large companies could find an inspiration from the hackerspace movement.<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div><img fetchpriority=\"high\" fetchpriority=\"high\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-1902 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/innovao.cluster030.hosting.ovh.net\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/mitch-altman-hackerspace-culture-corporate-innovation-martin-pasquier-innovation-is-everywhere-1.jpeg\" alt=\"mitch altman hackerspace culture corporate innovation martin pasquier innovation is everywhere\" width=\"640\" height=\"426\" \/><\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div>Mitch founded <a title=\"Noisebridge\" href=\"https:\/\/www.noisebridge.net\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Noisebridge<\/a>, one of the first hackerspaces in the US in 2008, and since then, he&rsquo;s been traveling a lot to share his thoughts and experience about coworking spaces, hacking and the DIY culture.<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div>Here&rsquo;s an almost uncut version of this e-mail interview we had between Singapore and Berlin.<\/div>\n<div>\n<p><iframe src=\"\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/WkiX7R1-kaY\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>For a video intro to Mitch Altman, you can have a look at this video from TedX Brussels.<\/p>\n<h2>Hackerspaces are about love<\/h2>\n<p><em><strong>Innovation is Everywhere: I agree that the \u00ab\u00a0community + creative experience\u00a0\u00bb is what people need and\/or want. A hackerspace is a good place when you&rsquo;re out of your job. How could a corporation set up a hackerspace, as they have their own rules, such as minimum attendance, selection of projects that can bring value to the company, etc&#8230; or do you feel it&rsquo;s incompatible? The \u00ab\u00a0Google time\u00a0\u00bb of 20% for engineers to work on their ideas seem to be a good example, did you meet similar cases elsewhere?<\/strong><br \/>\n<\/em><span class=\"im\"><br \/>\n<\/span> Mitch Altman: One of the big things that make hackerspaces work so well is that people are playing and working on projects that they love &#8212; or exploring what they love.\u00a0 A big problem with company&rsquo;s environments is that they give little room for people to explore and do what excites them &#8212; they are bound to do the projects that make the company money, whether they like the project, or not.\u00a0 Pretty much the only options an employee has is to transfer, or to quit.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>From what I hear, Google no longer allows employees to do whatever they want for their 20% time.\u00a0 And I&rsquo;ve heard that it is less than 20% now.\u00a0 This is hearsay, however.<\/p>\n<p>If a company could give their employees time to play, I think that would go a long way in keeping employees happy and creative.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><em><strong>Innovation is Everywhere: If hacking is taking something which exist and augment it, then share it, could a corporation set up a space with their products into it, and let hackers, tweakers, makers play with it?<\/strong><br \/>\n<\/em><span class=\"im\"><br \/>\n<\/span> Mitch Altman: Another big thing that makes hackerspaces thrive is that they are conceived of and started by people who want one.<\/p>\n<p>If a hackerspace is imposed on some people from above, I don&rsquo;t think it would work as well as when people envision what they would like in a space, and then create it.<\/p>\n<p>Assuming it is the employees of the corporation who will be using the internal \u00ab\u00a0hackerspace\u00a0\u00bb, perhaps the best way to proceed is to give the employees who will be using the space time to get together to determine for themselves what kind of a \u00ab\u00a0hackerspace\u00a0\u00bb they would like to play in.\u00a0 Then give them some resources to create it for themselves.<\/p>\n<p>Another thing that makes hackerspaces work well is that the people who start it, and who keep it going, build up the space themselves (to varying degrees).\u00a0 Creating a master plan for the layout, and then building it\u00a0 is a very bonding experience.<\/p>\n<p>Some spaces do all of the build-up themselves; some do most of the build-up, but hire contractors for some of the things that are difficult for them (such as for spaces where there is no one who knows plumbing); some spaces do very little build-up of infrastructure, but they lay out the tables and chairs and tools, etc.\u00a0 Regardless of the degree, the build-up that the members of the community do together is very valuable.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_1903\" style=\"width: 650px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-1903\" class=\"wp-image-1903 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/innovao.cluster030.hosting.ovh.net\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/dim-sum-labs-hong-kong-hackerspace-innovation-is-everywhere-martin-pasquier-interview-mitch-altman-noisebridge-1.jpg\" alt=\"dim sum labs hong kong hackerspace innovation is everywhere martin pasquier interview mitch altman noisebridge\" width=\"640\" height=\"640\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-1903\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">An evening at Dim Sum Labs, Hong Kong&rsquo;s hackerspace (2014)<\/p><\/div>\n<h2><\/h2>\n<h2>Events and communication make hackerspaces breathe<\/h2>\n<p><em><strong>Innovation is Everywhere: What is the role of events in such a space? Is it only to make it breathe like a micro-organism? You say for instance the hackerspace movement has been kickstarted by the <a title=\"Chaos Communication Camp\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Chaos_Communication_Camp\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Chaos Computer Camp<\/a> in 2007. It also seems from a few spaces I visited (<a title=\"Dim Sum Labs\" href=\"http:\/\/www.dimsumlabs.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Dim Sum Labs<\/a> in Hong Kong, <a title=\"Hackerspace singapore\" href=\"http:\/\/hackerspace.sg\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Hackerspace Singapore<\/a>, <a title=\"CC hub lagos\" href=\"http:\/\/www.www.innovationiseverywhere.com\/guide-tour-cc-hub-nigeria-lagos\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">CC Hub in Lagos Nigeria<\/a>) that events come first, and the space as a \u00ab\u00a0mere\u00a0\u00bb consequence of it (we&rsquo;re more and more attending -&gt; we want more than a bar\/a coffee shop to meet, let&rsquo;s find a place!)?<\/strong><br \/>\n<\/em><span class=\"im\"><br \/>\n<\/span> Mitch Altman: Events are very important!\u00a0 The physical space is very important!\u00a0 The ability to hang out in the space without planned activities is also very important.\u00a0 And the ability to come whenever inspired to use tools is very important. The ability to come whenever someone wants to ask questions of people who are there is also important.<\/p>\n<p>Hackerspaces need to have ongoing workshops and classes and events to keep the energy high, and to attract more people to explore things that they want to learn, and things that might excite them.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong><em>Innovation is Everywhere: Communication is another key of hackerspaces: Websites, meetups, talks&#8230; How do you see this working for a corporate powered space? Can it mingle smoothly? Is a charter a good idea, or does it already sound like too much bullshit?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Having a written vision statement and written mission statement is very important.\u00a0 It is also important that people who use the space all agree on how the space is organized, how decisions are made, and what rules to enact and follow.<\/p>\n<p>One of the hackerspace design patterns (and please do look up and read the \u00ab\u00a0<a title=\"Hackerspace design patterns\" href=\"http:\/\/hackerspaces.org\/images\/8\/8e\/Hacker-Space-Design-Patterns.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">hackerspace design patterns<\/a>\u00ab\u00a0) is to meet once a week.\u00a0 This has proven through the years to be important for healthy community.<\/p>\n<p>There must be a procedure for people to follow when there is conflict.<\/p>\n<p>Communication is a big part of all of the above.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_1904\" style=\"width: 650px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-1904\" class=\"wp-image-1904 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/innovao.cluster030.hosting.ovh.net\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/cc-hub-nigeria-lagos-coworking-space-africa-innovation-is-everywhere-mitch-altman-martin-pasquier-1.jpg\" alt=\"cc hub nigeria lagos coworking space africa innovation is everywhere mitch altman martin pasquier\" width=\"640\" height=\"480\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-1904\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">A day at CC Hub, Lagos biggest coworking space (Nigeria, 2014)<\/p><\/div>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong><em>Innovation is Everywhere: My feeling is that the will of hackerspace is to be for everyone, but as many tech-related phenomenons, there is also a risk of just reproducing existing divides (the most techy will go there, and the other ones will drop out). Same with a company powered space: can we imagine everyone taking part? random-picking and compulsory attendance? or just let the community do and have only young hipsters joining something they already know?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Mitch Altman: It is important that each hackerspace welcomes all who would like to check them out, but each space is not for everyone.\u00a0 I don&rsquo;t think that a hackerspace will work well when it is mandatory for people to go there, since this defeats the purpose of it being a place to explore and do what one loves.<\/p>\n<p>It is probably best to ensure that the \u00ab\u00a0hackerspace\u00a0\u00bb at the company is only for people who want to make use of it.\u00a0 For that to work well, the time spent there needs to be valued by the company.<\/p>\n<h2><\/h2>\n<h2>Mitch Altman&rsquo;s \u00ab\u00a0Do-acracy\u00a0\u00bb: do first, solve issues later<\/h2>\n<p><strong><em>Innovation is Everywhere: How did you design Noisebridge, by the way? I suspect it&rsquo;s something collective, if so, how did you do that? A few meetings with quick validation points, and then, the space always open to evolution? How to keep a minimal decision power in a collective space, or does it need it anyway at all? Is there any architectural features you&rsquo;d like to stress?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Mitch Altman: When we created Noisebridge there were very few models to draw from.\u00a0 So, we created our own.\u00a0 It turned out that it took a year of discussions before we got our first space.\u00a0 Here&rsquo;s what we came up with:<\/p>\n<p>We met every Tuesday to discuss how we, collectively, wanted to organize and run Noisebridge.\u00a0 We all decided to have an anarchist collective, with no leader, no followers, and only one rule:\u00a0 Be excellent to each other.\u00a0 We chose to create a non-profit, tax-exempt, membership organization.\u00a0 We chose to have all decisions made by consensus.\u00a0 We chose to have a board of directors (required by law) with no power, but only responsibility &#8212; they are required to \u00ab\u00a0rubber-stamp\u00a0\u00bb the consensus of the membership.\u00a0 Officers (also required by law) also have no power, but only responsibility.<\/p>\n<p>The board and officers are elected.\u00a0 We wanted to make it difficult for people who are wanting to use a board position or officer position to have power over others. Since consensus is inherently a conservative process, we decided that most things at Noisebridge would happen through \u00ab\u00a0Do-acracy\u00a0\u00bb:\u00a0 if you want to do something, and you believe that it will not be a problem for anyone, then:\u00a0 do it.\u00a0 If it turns out to be a problem for anyone, then it is up to the person(s) to speak up, and it is important for everyone to work things out.\u00a0 We have a conflict resolution process that has evolved over the years of our existence.<\/p>\n<p>The above has worked well for us.<\/p>\n<p>Some hackerspaces are organized in similar ways as Noisebridge.\u00a0 Other hackerspaces are very different.\u00a0 It is up to each group how to organize themselves so it works for them.<\/p>\n<p>Community is hard work.\u00a0 It will always be hard work.\u00a0 But, if it works out for those involved in the community &#8212; then the community works.\u00a0 What I outlined above works well for Noisebridge.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_1905\" style=\"width: 650px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img loading=\"lazy\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-1905\" class=\"wp-image-1905 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/innovao.cluster030.hosting.ovh.net\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/Noisebridge-san-francisco-mitch-altman-interview-on-hackerspaces-martin-pasquier-innovation-is-everywhere-1.jpeg\" alt=\"Noisebridge san francisco mitch altman interview on hackerspaces martin pasquier innovation is everywhere\" width=\"640\" height=\"480\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-1905\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Noisebridge, the mother of all hackerspace!<\/p><\/div>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><em><strong>Innovation is Everywhere: Love comes back quite often in your speeches. I think this is also what <a title=\"Chris Anderson Makers\" href=\"http:\/\/martinpasquier.com\/2012\/11\/22\/chris-andersons-makers-when-customers-turn-into-community\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Chris Anderson is writing in \u00ab\u00a0Makers\u00a0\u00bb<\/a>: the internet unleashed the power of tons of people who were bored at work but could suddenly express what they really liked online, forums, and then form communities. Is the hackerspace the logic consequence of the internet? Could it come without? If so, is there also, next to the physical space, digital communities to help anyone to join the space, know what it does, and join at some point?<\/strong><br \/>\n<\/em><span class=\"im\"><br \/>\n<\/span> Mitch Altman: The internet is a very powerful tool.\u00a0 But it cannot replace real community.\u00a0 If real community isn&rsquo;t available, then the internet is way better then no community.\u00a0 But it is still just a tool.\u00a0 It is a tool that real communities can use.\u00a0 And they are great for spreading the word for all the cool things available at each hackerspace, and at hackerspaces in general.<\/p>\n<p>I don&rsquo;t think that the hackerspace movement would have happened without the internet.\u00a0 People started making cool projects (physical things, as well as software), and many posted about their projects online.\u00a0 This allowed people to see that there are many others who are interested in the same or similar things.\u00a0 It also showed people that there is a need for real community, where people come together.<\/p>\n<p><a title=\"Make Magazine\" href=\"http:\/\/makezine.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">MAKE Magazine<\/a> keyed into this.\u00a0 They created a physical, print, magazine with lots of cool projects that anyone can make.\u00a0 Then they created Maker Faires, where people could come together.<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-1901 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/innovao.cluster030.hosting.ovh.net\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/mitch-altman-hackerspace-culture-corporate-innovation-martin-pasquier-shenzhen-maker-fair-innovation-is-everywhere-1.jpg\" alt=\"mitch altman hackerspace culture corporate innovation martin pasquier shenzhen maker fair innovation is everywhere\" width=\"640\" height=\"480\" \/><\/p>\n<p>Hackerspaces have existed in Germany for a long time.\u00a0 But it is about the same time as MAKE Magazine and the first Maker Faire that enough people came together for the hackerspace movement to take off.<\/p>\n<p>Part of what helped the hackerspace movement take off was the creation of <a href=\"http:\/\/hackerspaces.org\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">hackerspaces.org<\/a> &#8212; which is a central networking website for all hackerspaces to help each other, and for people thinking about starting a hackerspace to seek help.\u00a0 It is also a central website for people to find hackerspaces to play in.<\/p>\n<p>BTW, I am currently pushing for an international Hackers In Residence Program, where any organization can call for a Resident.\u00a0 Some may provide very little, others will provide all expenses paid &#8212; it is up to each organization to determine what they would like from a resident.\u00a0 Each organization gets a web-page, with an easy-to-fill-out form to describe what they want from a Resident.\u00a0 And anyone can browse through the Resident opportunity pages, and apply to any they find interesting.\u00a0 I think this will be a fantastic resource for many organizations, including companies, hackerspaces, museums, libraries, schools, universities&#8230;\u00a0 (As well as a fantastic opportunity for many people to travel and learn, and to cross-pollinate.)<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-1906\" src=\"http:\/\/innovao.cluster030.hosting.ovh.net\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/hackerspace-org-mitch-altman-interview-martin-pasquier-innovation-is-everywhere-makers-1.png\" alt=\"hackerspace org mitch altman interview martin pasquier innovation is everywhere makers\" width=\"390\" height=\"283\" \/><\/p>\n<p><em><strong>Innovation is Everywhere: Overall, what do you think characterize hackerspaces compared to other innovative spaces such as the Googleplex, GE Garages and, say, my nephew&rsquo;s science fair in school? Except or in addition to the above, what is the key element\/pattern at work? What is likely to make it work? What is likely to make it fail? Do you have a way to \u00ab\u00a0measure\u00a0\u00bb the success of a hackerspace, or we just don&rsquo;t care because it was first and foremost a project of passionate, who know anything can fail?<\/strong><br \/>\n<\/em><span class=\"im\"><br \/>\n<\/span> Mitch Altman: The measure of the success of a hackerspace is how awesome it is to be there!\u00a0 This isn&rsquo;t very quantifiable.<\/p>\n<p>I think that I&rsquo;ve described what makes hackerspaces different than other places, such as the examples you gave. Hackerspaces are places with supportive community for people to explore and do what they love, regardless of whether they make money with it &#8212; though, people are finding, more and more, that they <i>can<\/i> make a living with projects that they love.<\/p>\n<p>The other spaces you mentioned are there with a goal of making money, regardless of whether others love it or not &#8212; though, to make it work, there has to be some strong interest on the employees involved.<\/p>\n<p>There used to be companies with research departments.\u00a0 And some of them used to allow \u00ab\u00a0pure\u00a0\u00bb research &#8212; where people who worked there were encouraged to explore whatever intrigued them (even if there was no obvious way it would translate into profits).\u00a0 This is very rare now, from what I can tell.\u00a0 Unless you look in a hackerspace &#8212; then it is the norm.<\/p>\n<p><em><strong>Innovation is Everywhere: Thanks a lot Mitch! To read more about the hackerspace movement, we can refer you to <a title=\"Maker Cities\" href=\"http:\/\/www.www.innovationiseverywhere.com\/makers-city-11-makerspaces-around-world-grow-communities-hack-urban-issues\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">our wrap-up of the Maker Cities project,<\/a> as seen in Shenzhen, where 11 makers from all over the world showcased how their city did embrace the maker culture.<\/strong><br \/>\n<\/em><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Last year, as we did some research on the places of innovation for a client, we interviewed Mitch Altman, dubbed the \u00ab\u00a0father of the hackerpaces\u00a0\u00bb. The topic was to know how large companies could find an inspiration from the hackerspace movement. Mitch founded Noisebridge, one of the first hackerspaces in the US in 2008, and [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":1907,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[54,49],"tags":[362,327,150],"class_list":["post-1900","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-community","category-innovators-category","tag-coworking","tag-hackerspaces","tag-makers"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/innovationiseverywhere.com\/fr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1900","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/innovationiseverywhere.com\/fr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/innovationiseverywhere.com\/fr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/innovationiseverywhere.com\/fr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/innovationiseverywhere.com\/fr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1900"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/innovationiseverywhere.com\/fr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1900\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/innovationiseverywhere.com\/fr\/wp-json\/"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/innovationiseverywhere.com\/fr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1900"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/innovationiseverywhere.com\/fr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1900"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/innovationiseverywhere.com\/fr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1900"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}